Harvey Diamond Owes Me A New Car

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Harvey Diamond once said, “You put a baby in a crib with an apple and a rabbit.  If it eats the rabbit and plays with the apple, I’ll buy you a new car.”   I will never understand why this slice of buffoonery gets repeated so often and it actually frightens me to know there are so many morons in the world that see any logic to this rhetoric.

First of all, if you placed a rabbit and an apple in a baby’s crib, they would eat neither.  Because we are not given the age of the “baby” in this fictitious situation, I am to assume that the child would be younger than 18 months to still be in a crib.  This child wouldn’t have the knowledge or skills necessary to kill, clean and cook a rabbit.  This doesn’t mean that the child is not the offspring of a meat-eating animal.  If I were to place a live bunny in a crate with an eight week old puppy or kitten, chances are good that they would also play with the rabbit rather than eat the rodent.  Is Harvey suggesting that this proves that cats and dogs are not meat-eating animals? .

The human infant wouldn’t choose to eat the apple as Diamond so confidently insinuates.  A pre-toddler doesn’t have the developed incisors to bite into a whole apple, just as the puppy or kitten don’t have the large canines needed for dispatching the rabbit.  Now if Harvey is suggesting that we peel and slice up the apple and place it in the crib, then there is a chance that the child might take a stab at it.  But is a peeled and sliced apple a fair comparison to a live rabbit?  Babies will stick anything in their mouth in an attempt to eat it.  My baby brother used to pick up dust bunnies from under furniture and place them in his mouth. Would a dust bunny qualify as a rabbit?  It’s about as absurd as Harvey Diamond’s scenario.

Here in Florida we have zillions of small lizards named “Anoles” that scurry around.  A friend’s two-year-old daughter once caught one somehow and placed it in her mouth and bit it in half.  I don’t know if she had the choice of an apple but opted for the reptile instead, but I doubt that mattered to the lizard.  My sister was the nanny to two children.  The little girl she took care of once caught a millipede, placed it in her mouth and crunched down on it.  Anyone familiar with millipedes knows that they are not only armored, but can spray a hydrogen cyanide gas, which burns flesh on contact.  The child was in considerable pain from the chemical burns to her lips and tongue.  Unlike Harvey, I won’t use this as a counter argument that we are carnivores based on these examples, because children will stick a lot of things in their mouth.

Pediatrician Dr. Laura A. Jana lists the following as the top ten items swallowed by babies:

  1. Coins

  2. Jewelry

  3. Buttons

  4. Boogers

  5. Pills

  6. Batteries

  7. Hairballs

  8. Magnets

  9. Nails, pins and tacks

  10. Arts and craft supplies

I guess all of these items are on the menu at the Diamond’s house, beings they use infant’s eating choices as their dietary recommendations.  Many children have eaten their own feces, this doesn’t make us descendants of the dung beetle — but it may give new meaning to the ingredients of the pu-pu platter served at the Diamond’s dinner table.

I have witnessed many children bite down on animals or parts of living animals in my lifetime.  I have seen children take a bite of a dog or cat’s tail and I have seen children stick the head of a small rodent, such as a hamster or gerbil, in their mouth.

But the real stupidity of this cliché is the offering of a live bunny to any infant mammal, whether it be carnivore, omnivore or herbivore.  This test is too easily manipulated, which is why it lives only in a proverbial sense and has never been put to a test.  I am willing to conduct the test –- after all, there is a new car at stake here.

I believe that Harvey Diamond, wanting to promote a vegetarian diet with another example of pseudoscience, would propose a peeled and sliced apple offered with the living bunny.  This test would show too much bias towards the fruit.  If we wanted to level the playing field, we would kill, cook and slice up the rabbit into tiny pieces and offer it with the apple.  Chances are probably 50/50 that the child could choose either the cooked rabbit or sliced apple. 

This experiment is pointless and proves nothing about human dietary needs.  If Mr. Diamond is going to use children as the litmus test as to what foods are best for humans to consume, then vegetarianism would fail royally on the fact that most children refuse to eat their vegetables, but readily gobble down hamburgers.  In conclusion, if we run Harvey’s test with a live rabbit and a whole apple, Harvey is mistaken that the child would play with the bunny and open their mouth wide and crunch into a crisp apple with their naked gums.  If we choose my rules of a cooked and sliced rabbit and whole apple…. well… Harvey, can we talk about which model and color car I’m getting?

I would really like to hear Harvey’s reply to this, but I doubt that I ever will.  Enough said.


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18 Responses to Harvey Diamond Owes Me A New Car
  1. Lucky Joestar
    September 29, 2012 | 1:25 am

    That’s right, Harvey! We humans are coinivores, jewelivores, buttonivores, boogervores, pillivores, batterivores, hairballivores, magnetivores and so on. ^_^

    • Wolverine
      September 29, 2012 | 2:12 am

      Yeah. I never found Harvey’s story as poignant as so many morons do – especially Dr. Oz, who likes to repeat the baby/rabbit story over and over.

  2. Tessa
    November 10, 2012 | 9:02 am

    My (now 28-year old) daughter’s first solid food was a random grab at my friend’s burger. Her (now two and a half-year old) son’s first solid food was a fleshy piece of chicken leg. My grandson went from breastmilk to self-weaning – pretty much all animal product. Our dentition and gut shows that we are more carnivore than not. Our ills show we are not veggies.

    • Wolverine
      November 11, 2012 | 6:02 am

      Thanks for your input Tessa. I have never seen a child turn their nose up at a hamburger, bacon, or chicken nuggets. Yet I have seen many children, including myself when I was a child long ago, refuse to eat some vegetable, like spinach, Brussels sprouts or asparagus. Though these are healthy foods, it does require developing a taste for them, like coffee. I like them all now, but most children don’t.

      No one has to acquire a taste for a grilled steak and we still refer to veggies as a “side dish”, which would suggest to me that our ancestors sought out meat first and settled for vegetables and fruits when meat was scarce or as a supplement to a feast of meat. Why else would we still call meat the main dish and the veggies a “side dish” and fruits as a dessert? Though I’m sure some vegan would have some ad hoc explanation, it would be laughable at best – as is Harvey Diamond’s scenario.

      I think this would certainly suggest that we were not descendants of herbivores (besides the fact that we have a completely different digestive system than ruminants). Baby cattle and goats go straight for grasses when weaned and seem to relish it (I have raised both cattle and goats). Wouldn’t human children have the same relish for vegetables when weaned, if we were truly an herbivore species? Vegans make up their own pseudoscience based on wishful thinking, when all real scientific and anthropological evidence points to humans being an omnivorous species, who preferred meat when available and went to great lengths to acquire it – including putting their life at risk to obtain it. The fact that 99% of all plants were poisonous to humans before the advent of fire to heat them and reduce the lectins also makes the human herbivore theory impossible.

      Even today, most plants are poisonous to humans, even when cooked. I have a better test than Harvey’s bullshit scenario to prove whether humans are naturally herbivores. I could make the challenge impossible by setting it in the northern hemisphere, but to be fair I will choose a subtropical region, like here in a Florida wilderness, like the Green Swamp or The Everglades, where plants are green year around. Vegans tend to forget that they can only be vegan because of technology, like B12 supplements and massive mono cropping of grains, beans and legumes, which are very rare to find in large numbers in the wilderness, as are fruits and berries. And most natural fruits, not hybridized by men, are not very palatable and many wild berries are flat out poison.

      I challenge any vegan to live for one month in such a wilderness only eat plant life, no bugs or crayfish or any other animal, living or dead. We can also place an omnivore survivalist, who can eat anything they want, including bugs, crayfish, turtle, fish, gators, etc.. At the end of the month we will see who lost the most weight and if the vegan surrenders before the month is out, dies or loses the most weight, we can safely consider that humans did not evolve as omnivores and put this PETA pseudoscience to rest for good.

      I’m quite sure the vegan would surrender or die, because these swamps have so many toxic plants and fruits that will kill a humans within days or hours (like oleander), so the vegan better know their plants well. Orange trees, left unattended and fertilized by humans, quickly revert to there native “sour root”. Though they are still edible, I have yet to see a human here in Florida eat one without spitting it out. This would be the fruits that our ancestors would have encountered – not the human hybridized fruits of today that are ten times higher in sugar and much lower in citric acid.

      Maybe I will post this challenge on the main page, but I doubt any vegan would take it, because it would be suicide. All animal species in these swamps, including rattle snakes, are completely edible, with no toxins. Over 98% of the plant life is deadly to humans. How in the hell could our Paleolithic ancestors know what plants were safe and obtain enough of them to acquire the calories needed for the large human brain?

      • Tessa
        November 14, 2012 | 1:26 pm

        A few thoughts…

        Didn’t Alexander the Great reputedly lose his men after they used Oleander twigs as meat skewers?

        Aren’t we all suffering high homocysteine levels these days (resolved by B-vits, B12 in particular)?

        I can’t deny that I would happily eat vast quantities of Brussels sprouts, spinach and asparagus, as do both my children and my grandson, but I think we’d all prefer fish and meat (Actually, even my husband eats a lot more meat and fats than he thinks he does, and a lot less veg). Generally speaking, we humans just don’t want to eat bitter foods as they are generally toxic – and generally plantlife.

        You can freeze, defrost and eat/cook+eat meat/fish, but you have to prepare veg before freezing (but the veggies would say we have to hang/salt/etc…)

        I only use four fats: butter, olive oil, lard and coconut oil. I can’t stand extra-virgin olive oil (it makes me cough and tastes poisonous. You have to be a bit ultra-cultured to appreciate EVOO, n’est pas?), and virgin coconut oil can be a bit too coconutty for general use (though I use a bland brand KTN that the manufacturers have personally written to me confirming it is not hydrogenated and about as organic as it can be without saying it’s organic). So that stands up to the stance that vegetables are a bit on the toxic side. On the other hand… I suspect coconut oil in particular is healthy. I’ve been wrong before. Your thoughts?

        In England (and I’m sure it’s been franchised) there’s a tv programme called “I’m a Celebrity, Get Me Out of Here” where they have challenges involving them eating LIVE bugs. I’m not sure how well I’d do if offered a scorpion to eat, but they don’t offer them RAW toxic plants. Presumably because it is actually safe to eat a foul-tasting, ugly roach, but not most plants.

        I’m getting quite good at rants, no?

        Tessa

        • Wolverine
          November 15, 2012 | 6:34 am

          You’re very well versed in your rants. I’m not sure if Alexander’s men suffered from using oleander skewers or if that’s an urban legend. Here in Florida, where oleander grows everywhere, there are stories of boyscouts using oleander branches to roast hotdogs and dying from the poison. Snopes.com has listed that as an urban legend and claim that the poison from the tip of the branch would not be sufficient to kill a human. But, there is little doubt that eating the plant itself is a death sentence.

          I really enjoy brussels sprouts, asparagus and spinach (of course, I drown them in butter first). I guess I acquired a taste for them, because I didn’t really enjoy them as a child (but my mother didn’t dowse them in butter, cheese or cream). I never remember having to acquire a taste for hamburger, steak or turkey.

          I use the same cooking oils, except I also use tallow, because I raise grass-finished cattle and always get all of the fat from the butcher and render it into tallow. Saves me a lot of money and I know where the fat came from and that the cattle were never given hormones and antibiotics.

          I believe that coconut oil in extremely healthy. We buy it by the gallon from Green Pastures. Beside using it for cooking and general consumption, it works great topically on wounds. Last year, I burned my hand removing something from the oven. I was really frightened, because I take immunosuppressant medication (anti-rejection medicine) and any infection can be life threatening to me. After placing the wound in cool water for about 20 minutes, I dowsed some gauze with coconut oil and wrapped the wound. I changed it daily with more gauze dipped in coconut oil. It was a 3rd degree burn, yet it healed in half the time of an untreated burn, never got infected (stayed pink), the skin never died and it healed without even a tiny scar.

          I knew that coconut oil was anti-bacterial (because of the lauric acid) and anti-fungal (because of the caprylic acid), but I was amazed how fast the burn healed, so I did some research and found a study that treated one group of wounded rats with coconut oil and another group as a control. The study found that the rats treated with coconut oil showed a much higher collagen grawth than the control.

          My wife once had a bad case of swimmer’s ear and had tried several OTCs to clear it up, but nothing from the pharmacy worked. She was about to make an appointment at a E.N.T when I asked her if she tried coconut oil (it is anti-fungal). The infection cleared up 2 days after she began putting coconut oil in her ear. If coconut oil works half as good inside us as it does on the outside, it’s well worth consuming. I know that it can clear up candida.

          There are a few insects and probably some arachnids that are poisonous to eat, but they are very rare. Even a scorpion is safe to eat if you first cut off his stinger. In my latest post; “Are Whole Healthy Grains Defenseless?”, I stated: “Whether it’s sharp teeth, powerful jaws, stingers, horns or hooves they are no longer a threat after the animal is dispatched. Even a rattlesnake is quite edible once it is dead.”. Not only is it safer to eat an animal, pound for pound, they are far more nutritious. There are important vitamins and minerals we can obtain from plants, especially vitamin C, which is lacking in animal foods, but the greater part of our nutrition comes from animal products.

          I would love to see some vegan take my challenge. They would have to surrender after a few days, unless they were stubborn enough to die. I can’t see how they can believe that humans evolved as herbivores? Living in Florida, I know that there is a wealth of food in these swamps, but they are all animals. There are very few plants that are edible and many that will kill you within hours of consumption. Why would our ancestor take the hard road trying to find plants by process of elimination, when so many critters are available? We certainly would have evolved immunity to these poisons if out ancestors thrived on them. I believe that the fact that we have no immunity to the toxins in most of the plants of the world is proof that we were never herbivores as hominids and that PETA is full of crap for claiming that we are.

          I am definitely going to have to publish my challenge in a post in the near future. Maybe I can pitch it to Discovery. It would make a great show and piss off a lot of vegans when their champion has to surrender.

          • Sofie
            December 1, 2012 | 10:48 am

            Well, one point is that humans didn’t evolve in Florida. You should do it in Africa for accuracy.

          • Wolverine
            December 1, 2012 | 6:43 pm

            Thanks for your comment. No, the experiment does not have to be conducted in Africa. Yes, humans originally evolved in Africa, but began migrating across the globe during ice ages. An herbivorous species cannot make the adaptation from herbivore to omnivore in a few thousand years (given the fact that the human pancreas manufactures all of the enzymes necessary to digest meat). Setting it in Africa would be like PETA admitting that the human species was well adapted to meat eating before they began migrating. The fact that the African bushmen still hunt meat would suggest that this is true.

            PETA acts as if meat-eating is something unnatural to the human, as if it were something we only began a short time ago. Of course, I still believe the experiment would fail even in the African plains, which is where all evidence suggests that we evolved, not in the rainforest with the other apes. Even the Florida swamps would yield more edible plant foods than the African plains. (There is no evidence that humans evolved in the African rainforests).

            If PETA’s claim that humans evolved as an herbivore were to be true (and still remain an herbivore), then the human animal would have had to have been able to support their nutritional needs with strictly plant based foods wherever they migrated to. Florida is far more similar to Africa than most of the other places that humans migrated to over 100,000 years ago.

            A study was done by MonsterQuest in central Florida to see if the wilderness could support a wild population of chimpanzees and found that it was similar enough to the chimpanzee’s natural habitat to support them (source). Yet the study found that they would have to introduce meat into their diet. If central Florida does not have enough vegetation to support chimps, how could it have enough to support humans? 75% of all the other environments where humans have thrived are far less hospitable than Florida. So if you cannot survive as a gatherer in Florida, then you certainly couldn’t in Iceland.

            Otherwise, PETA is admitting that humans adapted to meat eating a long, long time ago and the fact that our most ancient ancestors (over 2 millions years ago) were herbivores is quite moot (they had a much smaller brain to feed). See, PETA wants to make outlandish claims that humans covered the earth as an herbivorous species, but when challenged, now all of a sudden they want to talk about way back before our ancestors were even considered hominids. Hell, we were a single cell species if you want to go back far enough, but that has no bearing on what we have become in the last million years. If humans covered the globe as a herbivorous species, then my challenge set in Florida is more than fair for PETA to prove it.

          • Tracy
            July 23, 2013 | 11:52 pm

            Many of them say they would starve to death before they would ever eat meat because they simply could not stand to do it. However, if they were ever really in that situation, they would eat it. I have read if you are so starving that you have already burned all your glucose and body fat for energy, that it causes a change in brain chemistry to a more primal level, survival only. At that point you will eat anything, even another person.

          • Wolverine
            July 31, 2013 | 4:22 am

            Hi Tracy. I’m quite sure you’re right. Vegans are full of propaganda and bullshit and pretty much repeat whatever their gurus tell them. They tend to be an angry bunch as you can tell from some of the comments they left on this article – one of them wished I got cancer and died – oh, yeah, their diet is really soothing on their nerves.

            I used to wonder if it is something in their diet that makes so many of them hateful, like lack of B12 or the fact that most of the human hormones are made from cholesterol, so their hormones are all screwed up from lack of healthy fats in their diet, but then I began to think otherwise. The human body can make cholesterol and most vegans know to take B12 supplements, but most of all, I think that it is their negative, angry attitude that drove them to veganism in the first place, so I doubt it is the diet.

            They seem like people who have low self-confidence and a need for some identity that sets them apart from the crowd, so they choose veganism because it allows them to puff themselves up and look down on everyone else – which is why some people say it is more like an extreme religion. Kind of sad really, because they typically alienate everyone around them and end up surrounding themselves with just more bitter, angry friends that help fan the flames of hatred until they start to wish death on those that disagree with them.

            I know that not all vegans are like that and most vegetarians are not that way at all, but the most vocal of vegans are that way, which reflects poorly on veganism. I don’t believe that they are able to realize that the hateful comments they leave hurt their cause, not help it.

            Anyone who could wish death on another human being just because they disagree with with them can’t really be all that caring about much of anything, so I doubt there is really any love for animals, so yes, they would eat meat to save their life.

            The biggest example of vegan hypocrisy has to be Mary Beth Sweetland (Vice President of PETA). She is a diabetic and the insulin that keeps her alive was tested on animals. When asked if that was hypocritical, she claimed no, because she does so much important work to save animals that it is more important that she stays alive to save them. Funny thing is that PETA euthanizes more animals than any other animal shelter. PETA does not even try to find homes for the pets they obtain, they just kill them. So how is she saving so many animals? Why is it she thinks that all other Diabetics should die?

            I really don’t mind someone’s choice to become vegan. If that makes them happy, then go for it. I even don’t mind that they constantly preach their lifestyle choices, everyone is entitled to free speech. It only irritates me when they begin teaching falsehoods and bogus science, because facts are facts and if their diet is so great, they shouldn’t have to twist truths, history, anthropology and biology to convince people. They definitely spew a lot of nonsense when it comes to human digestion and nutritional facts and that I can’t tolerate.

            This is why they haven’t attempted to refute anything in the article. We can’t use babies as the arbiters of good nutrition, otherwise, we would all be eating boogers and swallowing coins.

            Thanks for the comment and I hope you stay healthy and happy.

  3. Mitchell Anderson
    March 3, 2013 | 9:38 am

    Hi There Wolverine—As it happens, I’ve met Mr. Diamond and I have significant experience with his FIT FOR LIFE books. Following his advice over the years has been the best thing that has ever happened to me and my family. His books are brilliantly written—simple, straightforward, and bursting with commonsense. Even my Dr. was so impressed with the strides in my and my wife’s health that he read the book and now has made changes to his diet!

    Just out of curiosity, Have YOU written a book that has been read by upwards of 20 million people? Have YOU written a book that has been in constant, uninterrupted publication for 28 years? Have YOU written a book that held the prestigious #1 position on the N.Y. Times Bestseller list for an unprecedented 40 straight weeks? Have YOU written a book that 28 YEARS AFTER ITS PUBLICATION still sells between 50 and 100 thousand copies a year around the world with no promotion other than word-of-mouth testimony from appreciative readers? Have nearly a million people from around the world written you letters of praise and gratitude? Do you really think all of that happens around “the work of a buffoon” as you put it? What exactly have you done in the battle for humanity except sit on the sidelines and ridicule those who are actually helping MILLIONS of people live healthier lives?

    Perhaps you are familiar with the old saying, “You don’t have to tear down your neighbor’s house in order to build your own.” Mr. Diamond built his house and millions of people have flocked to it and expressed their heartfelt gratitude for what they learned there—have millions flocked to your brand of discourse? It is so obvious that you have never taken even one breath in the same room as Mr. Diamond as have I. For if you had, and you saw firsthand what a loving, caring, knowledgeable, dedicated person he is, I don’t think you would be so quick to sit in judgment of someone who has done so much for so many. Build your own house Wolverine, and if it has substance and worth, you might even be fortunate enough to have even a fraction of the people admire and care for you as they do Mr. Diamond.

    My wife was at the proverbial “death’s door” with breast cancer when I wrote out of desperation to Mr. Diamond for help because our doctors had all but given up hope. Rather than answer our letter, he CALLED us! We were floored. He not only spent over an hour and a half counseling us, recommending what he thought she should do but he did not even charge us; not one dime! In his words, “My payment will be if your wife makes a full recovery.” Which she did! That was eight years ago and she is completely healed! So perhaps you can understand why I would take umbrage at this man of generosity and dedication having his work and integrity called into question.

    I sincerely hope people are willing to see for themselves what Mr. Diamond’s books have to offer. He has spent over 40 years helping millions of people around the world improve their health and well being, and I am one of them! In a stunning validation of Mr. Diamond’s methodology, he himself used his own dietary principles to save his life from the devastating effects of Agent Orange exposure he incurred while serving our country in Vietnam and although there has been significant damage done to his body he is one of the longest known survivors. Despite his physical challenges and the fact that he is nearly 70 years old, he continues to reach out to help others, including numerous Veterans with similar injuries. He is a true inspiration; a wonderful human being eminently worthy of admiration and respect; and you should be ashamed of yourself for posting that insulting, completely unwarranted picture of him which you photo-shopped. And if you have even a scrap of decency or integrity in you, you will remove it.

    “Those who were dancing were thought to be quite insane by those who could not hear the music.”—Lisa Monet

    • Wolverine
      March 3, 2013 | 4:31 pm

      Thanks for the comment Mithcell. I have also never been Vice President of the United States, but that certainly doesn’t mean I cannot make fun of the stupid gaffes that have been uttered by the likes of Dan Quayle or Joe Biden. Though he may have a lot of great advice, I still think his bunny/baby/apple analogy is the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard.

      I too was at deaths door, as a matter of fact, doctors told my wife on several occasions I would be dead within hours. I got better without the help of Mr. Diamond, so his is not the only way. Less than 1,200 people have ever survived what I did. You obviously didn’t read my story.

  4. Popeye
    April 22, 2013 | 1:17 am

    LOLOL — You are proof-positive that “anyone” can shit all over the Internet and make it worse rather than better. Typically, the day you die, the world will be better place for your absence. That is the true test of a human being and his/her life. You have obviously failed there, as well. Fucking worthless Idiot and embarrassment to the Human Species. May you die soon, and horribly, in great, sputtering agony, in the manner in which you deserve. Huzzah!

    • Wolverine
      April 23, 2013 | 12:36 pm

      Hey, thanks for writing, Popeye. This blog is certainly a better place because of you visit here. I had many fights with death a few years back and have always struggled with why I won, while so many other didn’t. Now that I know that my work brings you so much joy, I finally have an answer. Thank you for giving me that motive and reason for living. With that kind of encouragement, I could be around a very long time.

      • RT
        August 6, 2015 | 9:22 pm

        It’s an old post, but I’m new here and while I usually avoid internet debating, I can’t resist the urge to throw my two cents in. It’s good that you aren’t phased by such hateful bigotry. (And yes, it is bigotry to openly wish someone dead just because they disagree with you.) As for Mitchell’s comment (“Just out of curiosity, Have YOU written a book that has been read by upwards of 20 million people?” etc.), using the exact same logic, the Atkins diet must be the best way to eat because of the millions of copies *his* books have sold. Or perhaps, instead of indulging in the Argument from Authority or an appeal to popularity, assessing the actual evidence and logic involved in an argument might be a better approach? I notice that neither of the above trolls attempted to do so, and instea chose to indulge in ad hominem and/or name-calling, demonstrating that they don’t have a valid argument to begin with. I think part of the problem is that, with your story of survival against the odds, you are living, breathing evidence that hardcore veganism / vegetarianism is, at the very least, not the only valid way for a human to live. Your very existence is an offence to them because it contradicts their worldview. This is exemplified by the loser who belched forth his indignant and futile death wish against you. May you live a long and healthy life, Wolverine.

  5. Stevemisog
    December 19, 2016 | 8:53 am

    Wolverine – You speak of the baby/bunny/apple thing as though it were a test of human needs, not human desire as was the original intention.

    This hypothetical scenario is used to suggest that humans aren’t born as meat eaters. They make their dietary choices as a learned behaviour rather than naturally derived instinct.

    Gary Yourofsky explains the test in a better way – “find a 2 year old child, place the child in a crib, in the crib put 2 things, a live bunny rabbit and an apple.
    If the child eats the bunny rabbit and plays with the apple, send me an email, would you let me know, because I’m gonna come back and buy everyone in this room a brand new car if that happens.
    ZERO carnivorous instincts. ZERO omnivorous instincts, when we’re born, we’re all born vegan. We just acquire a taste for meat, cheese, milk and eggs after their forced down our throats during childhood.”

    • Wolverine
      January 2, 2017 | 8:51 pm

      I never suggested that this story was offered as scientific study of the dietary needs of a species — what you’re doing is called building a “straw man”. I understand that the story is supposed to be an amusing antidote which illustrates a point. The problem is, the point it attempts to illustrate is erroneous.

      Are you suggesting that a 1 week old kitten or puppy would kill the bunny and devour it? So, they’re not born killers either, but strictly make their dietary choices by what they’re taught. We know for a fact that both of these juvenile mammals are carnivores. I don’t know of any mammal which comes straight from the womb as a killer. Can you name any?

      Meat eating was very likely a dietary change in what was to become humans, but it was so many millions of years ago, that creature would not be classified as human (hominid). The human animal evolved because of meat eating. This is the most widely accepted theory among respected biologist, biochemist and anthropologist. Humans have been eating meat for so long that we have become dependent on dietary vitamin B12.

      Herbivores carry bacterial cultures which can synthesize this vitamin. Humans only have a similar culture in the colon, which only yields an 8 to 10% absorption. This is not enough supply for optimum health, so we rely on a dietary intake. Humans are also dependent on a dietary flow of amino acids which can only be obtained by a very large variety of grains, beans and legumes without meat. It makes no sense how an isolated tribe of primitive people could have obtained such a eclectic mixture of plants prior to agriculture. It would have been impossible.

      Just because someone can be vegan today, thanks to pharmaceutical B12 supplements, agriculture and the ability to ship foods long distances, it is nothing short of silly to suggest we could have evolved to be dependent on technology which has been in existence for less than 20,000 years. All of this is easily explained when you accept the fact that humans evolved to consume animal products. We can’t dismiss science because it interferes with what we want to believe.

      Humans are omnivores and we do have a very keen hunter and killer instinct or we wouldn’t be so damned good at it. It is simply ridiculous to set the ability to kill at birth as the sign of a predator. Carnivores are not even the best hunters on earth. Lions have a kill ratio of 25-30% and other large cats fare worse. Chimpanzees, an omnivore, have a kill ratio of 85% or better. This suggests that intelligence is far more dangerous weapon than muscle, claws and teeth. A primate which can construct missile weapons is certainly the most dangerous. Having the ability to strike from a distance further than a cat can pounce is only a dream for the lion.

      A small child may not kill a rabbit (neither will a kitten), but it may very well toss an object at the rabbit in an overhand motion, hitting it with surprising accuracy. This is a skill that even chimpanzees do not posses and a sign of the killing instinct of the human animal. It took millions of years for humans to evolve the small muscles, nerves and a considerable ratio of brain cells to achieve this skill. A skill not matched in all of the animal kingdom. A skill which enslaved the lion, bear and all other predators.

      That is the hunting instinct you were looking for and it begins to develop at a very young age. I have seen plenty of children throw objects, over hand, with deadly accuracy when angry. You ignore this skill because it doesn’t involve strength, claws or teeth, but it is far deadlier than all of those. Very likely why ever animal on earth has a natural fear of humans.

      Since it took millions of years to evolve these skill sets, I say that humans have been eating meat for a long time. We certainly didn’t evolve such skills for knocking apples out of trees. I think this is a far better indicator of a species dietary habits than sitting around expecting infant mammals to kill and eat prey — it’s just not going to happen, no matter what the species.

  6. Stevemisog
    January 3, 2017 | 4:28 pm

    Wolverine – You say, “This (18 month old) child wouldn’t have the knowledge or skills necessary to kill, clean and cook a rabbit.” You are absolutely right but you have also landed on the truth behind the amazing evolution of the human race with this point. It is cooking our food, not the kind of food that is the key to our intelligence.

    “I have witnessed many children bite down on animals or parts of living animals in my lifetime. I have seen children take a bite of a dog or cat’s tail and I have seen children stick the head of a small rodent, such as a hamster or gerbil, in their mouth.” – Care to tell us how many of these children you witnessed actually tore flesh from the animals they bit, and how many of those then chewed and ingested it?

    “If we choose my rules of a cooked and sliced rabbit and whole apple…” – Better still choose my rules of a live fluffy bunny and one made of chocolate.

    I am Vegan and I can honestly say in the 21 years I have been meat free I have never had to resort to man made supplements for B12 (thanks to Marmite) or any other nutrients. However, should the need arise I would go down that road gladly, rather than exploiting another species.